LIFERS: August 2009

Nobody's Perfect was a Brooklyn hardcore band from 1988-1994. Keep in mind that this interview was conducted in June 2006 for Double Rabies Zine, so don't get your hopes up about new Crumbsuckers albums or additional Dynamo reunions. And I've since acquired a real copy of Witness This (see picture.)

Done by Becky miller.

Jay: it's been a lot of years since Nobody's Perfect has been going, so I might not remember some things, but go for it.

Becky: yeah that's OK … I was surprised that you guys were even on the internet. My friend had dubbed me a tape that had the Steps Toward Deception demo, and I was trying to get information out of everybody, and nobody had any information for me.

Becky: Since a lot of people who read this zine aren't as familiar with Nobody's Perfect, especially in my age group do you want to maybe give a brief history of the band for people that aren't that familiar with the band?

Jay: Basically we started playing together in late '88, and we made the first demo which is Witness This in I think 1989. And with that demo we started doing a lot of local gigs in Brooklyn and came out of Brooklyn with the band. We were good friends with a lot of the other bands in Brooklyn, Biohazard, Merauder … we always used to hook up and play shows together, so that's pretty much how we got started

Becky: yeah when I was trying to find out more information and talking to people about you guys, people compared NP a lot to Biohazard stylistically. What are some bands that you would consider to be influences musically?

Jay: Pretty much everything except country. But I guess one of our favorites was the Crumbsuckers. I'm actually psyched about that show that's coming up …

Becky: yeah, that'll be amazing this summer.

Jay: yeah. Ya know, we listen to everything, everything from Slayer to NWA. Everything.

Becky: What was the local scene like in Brooklyn at the time? Did you play out of state a lot too?

Jay: It was actually a good time. Late 80's, early 90's … we kind of hit it just at the perfect time. The local scene was out of control. It was a big local scene, a lot of people came out to support the bands. We pretty much stuck to the east coast … we took Nobody's Perfect up to Boston, Connecticut, New York … we never really got too far but we did the east coast, and it was a good time. It was a good time to be in a band.

Becky: I figured that you must have played Connecticut because my friend said that one of his former band members had interviewed NP for No Apparent Reason Zine.

Jay: For some reason we had a real big following in Connecticut. It was pretty comparable to the following we had in New York, in our hometown. For some reason in CT every time we went there, it was always a big show, it was always packed. It was a good affiliation with Connecticut, we knew a lot of bands up there. There was a band called Rezin and the guy Billy from that band kinda booked all the shows together in CT. We played with Biohazard up there a few times, we played with Agnostic Front up there. Our first show up there was actually in a garage. The club where were supposed to play closed or something, so we drove all the way there and we played in this garage, just so we could play down there. And it was awesome, it was maybe 50-60 people stuffed in this little garage.

Becky: what were some of the best shows that played that stick out in your mind all these years later?

Jay: Best shows? Definitely Biohazard, obviously those guys put on an incredible show … the most memorable I'd have to say for me personally was when we played with the Cro-Mags in Brooklyn. That was the most memorable.

Becky: Nobody's Perfect was playing at a time when people were mixing hardcore and metal, but when I mentioned your band name to somebody I know and he said “oh those guys were a metalcore band from Brooklyn.” I wouldn't really characterize you guys as metalcore …

Jay: I don't really agree with that either … it's weird because we're all into different things. A lot of us are into hip hop, a lot of us are into metal. But when were doing the music, I don't really see it as any kind of … did you say metalcore?

Becky: yeah that's what he said. But I would have thought of you guys as more of a straightforward hardcore band.

Jay: yeah that's pretty much how I thought of it too. The shows we played, with Agnostic Front, Cro-Mags, we were billed as a hardcore band. We do listen to metal though … everybody listens to Slayer, Meshuggah, those type of bands …

Becky: You guys had a lot of socially conscious lyrics, everything from a song like Faulty US Consumer about buying American goods, or a song like From Me To You, or Out Of Control about the general state of society … were you trying to change people's minds or get people to think about their surroundings?

Jay: oh no, you're gonna ask me about lyrics! (Laughter)

Becky: I don't have to, if you don't remember much about it!

Jay: Well to be honest with you I can speak on the Witness This demo, which was the first demo, I think I wrote 2 or 3 of those songs' lyrics. Our lyrics were not necessarily trying to change anybody's opinion or make a choice, but it was our opinion, and maybe try to open up some eyes, try to put some message in the song.

Becky: I think that with a lot of the bands out now, it seems like in hardcore in 2006 it's not really cool to care about things as much and kids tend to shy away from writing lyrics about the state of society or a political stance.

Jay: I agree, I agree. That was our thing, even with the music, there was really no boundaries. Like you said, we can't write about that, we can't write about this. And the same thing with the music, you know? I'd like to think that Nobody's Perfect was kind of a unique sound. I don't know what know what kind of bands we get compared to. So even with the music, it was kind of like a no boundary thing. It's not like they expect to hear this riff or that riff, it's gotta be metal … we just write it because it was our personality and so forth.

Becky: did you guys ever consider turning some of the demo songs into a 7”, or did you just not get signed to do a record, 'cause all you put out were the two demos, correct?

Jay: yeah, we put out them two demos … we did have some stuff that came along the way … a lot of stuff was coming out of Europe, we had a big following in Europe. We never even got to play out there, but the tapes started circulating out there. I used to get incredible mail from out there like crazy. We had some stuff out there where guys wanted to do a 7” … and a lot of other stuff. Even a record offer from some label out there. But it just never came through. We were trying to get signed though with the two demos. More so with the second demo. I don't remember how the band dissolved in what order, but before we were able to get signed it just started to dissolve at some point.

Becky: yeah well you did end up with your stuff all over the world … when I said I was trading for a real copy of the Steps Toward Deception demo, I actually got it from South Africa, although the guy did used to live in Brooklyn.

Jay: really? That's impressive. (Laughter)

Becky: I knew he was legit because he had sold a Fit of Anger demo to my ex, and one of the Merauder demos, so I knew he had a bunch of New York hardcore stuff. But I think originally, at the time of the FOA deal, I had heard that he was in Madagascar. And I was like whoa, some dude in Madagascar has a Fit of Anger demo?

Jay: No shit, right? Yeah that's great to hear … I know we were in Germany and all sorts of places … but South Africa? (Laughter) Wow. Cool.

Becky: yeah it's cool the way things continue to circulate … my friend lent me his tape, like I was telling you, when you were like “how did someone your age hear of Nobody's Perfect?”

Jay: yeah I gotta tell ya, it tripped me out when I looked at you, saying how did this girl know about the band? I was talking to the rest of the guys, 'cause we still keep in contact with them… Junior lives down here in Florida, not too far, and I was telling him I was like dude, can you believe this shit is still circulating? And he was bugging out on that.

Becky: and it was kind of fortuitous you guys made your Myspace when you did, because that was right around the time I was starting to look for info on the band. My friend lent me this tape in April 'cause it had one of the Biohazard demos on there, it had the second Minus Merauder demo, the Out of Line demo … and the Steps Toward Deception demo. So then I was trying to pick his brain, and starting to lurk around on the internet trying to get some more information. And then I found out another pal had never heard of Steps Toward Deception, and I had never heard of the Witness This demo, so we traded and dubbed each other copies of the other demo. And then that dude in South Africa wanted to trade me the real copy of Steps Toward Deception, so that was real cool.

Jay: No shit. So he actually had the sleeve for it and that whole thing?

Becky: yeah I actually have the layout for both demos … my friend who sent me the dubbed copy of Witness This photocopied me the layout for that too. 'Cause I wanted to be able to look up some of the lyrics … that's actually why I wanted to wait to do the interview, was 'cause I wanted to look up a couple things on Steps Toward Deception when I got the layout. The fluorescent yellow tape is pretty cool.

Becky: How about what we originally touched on before, when I was saying that I think some hardcore bands today are afraid to have socially conscious lyrics … what are some of your thoughts on current bands or the state of hardcore right now, if you are still involved in hardcore?

Jay: yeah I am … my music thing kind of swings from month to month. I go on my heavy kick, I go on my hip hop kick. I'm not really up so much up on local hardcore any more unfortunately, one because I moved down to Florida, so I'm kind of out of touch with the local New York scene right now. So I probably couldn't even give a valid comment on what's going on today with the bands that are out there. I really don't even keep up on it.

Becky: but you're excited about the reunions of bigger bands, like the Crumbusckers?

Jay: yeah I still listen to the Crumbsuckers, and I dunno, Meshuggah? Have you heard Meshuggah?

Becky: I've heard of them I don't know that much about them.

Jay: you need to hear Meshuggah … you need to trade somebody something for a Meshuggah disc! (Laughter)

Becky: ok I'll work on that.

Jay: yeah definitely … that's like the heaviest band that ever will be, ever was. Believe me.

Becky: That's another thing with current hardcore … there's not that many people still trade tapes and stuff … most people just have soulseek or download stuff, but I'm pretty bad at computers so I don't know how to do that.

Jay: speaking of the computer thing, that's a big difference too. When we were doing it, the internet wasn't here yet. I think it's so much easier today, so much more beneficial to the band. I think if the internet was out there when we were around, I think we could have made a little more noise than we did, you know?

Becky: yeah that's how I ended up finding out some more information about NP, just going on various message boards saying please, somebody tell me something about Nobody's Perfect! Are kids now checking out your songs now that you have the Myspace, or is it mostly people who liked the band in the first place?

Jay: I don't know to be honest with you. The funny thing is, since I put up the page, I have gotten contacted by a lot of people I ain't heard from in years. I have been getting a lot of mail though, just in general … people glad to see the page, people want a way to get the demos, if I still have the demos, and all that type of thing, you know? So there's definitely a lot of mail I'm getting from people I don't even know, I was kind of shocked by that .

Becky: yeah 'cause it looks like it's still pretty small at this point … am I the youngest Nobody's Perfect fan you've encountered so far?

Jay: I think so, I think so. Yeah, I have to say, as far as I can remember. (Laughter)

Becky: One thing you had mentioned before, when we were initially talking about the band before the interview, was you said you had some live footage you were gonna put up online … so you guys have some live sets that are out there?

Jay: yeah I do actually, the problem is that I'm having a technical issue right now, where I got them on these old 1991 video tapes, and I can't find any way to convert em. So I'm working on trying to get them converted to my PC or a VCR so I can push 'em out to the internet.

Becky: what is it on, like a beta tape or something?

Jay: nah, I thought it was pretty standard … but going to look for something to play it on, apparently it wasn't that standard. Yeah I'm working it, and I plan on having it up probably within the next couple of weeks.

Becky: that's cool … I'd be interested to see it, especially since you stopped being a band when I was about 8 years old.

Becky: Some people argue now that there's not that much place for zines, now that the internet is a medium to spread information about hardcore … but I know you said you still held onto all your old zines … do you think zines are still relevant and still important to do for hardcore?

Jay: yeah, I definitely respect zines a lot. I think they're still important, and just the whole idea I respect, there's something about that underground aspect of it that I kinda like.

Becky: what were some of your favorite zines back when you were playing?

Jay: oh wow, there's so many of them (sighs) … you're asking me to go back. The only one I can probably remember right now is probably what you mentioned, which is No Apparent Reason … yeah you got me on that one, I'd have to go get my suitcase. (Laughter)

Becky: that's ok … so you held onto your old stuff?

Jay: yeah I got a suitcase or two with Nobody's Perfect stuff … flyers, everything, mail, you name it. And we even got a stack of rejections from record labels. I still hold onto those rejection letters. (Laughter)

Becky: It seems like every kid out there has a record label now. If somebody approached you now, and wanted to re-release one of the demos, or a discography or something, would you consider that?

Jay: yeah I don't see why not. I mean, I don't see anything wrong in it, you know?

Becky: I have so many ideas but I'm never gonna start a record label because I am the most disorganized human being, and that would be doing a disservice to everybody.

Jay: I hear ya, join the club. At this point I already opened up like 10 businesses … the problem is, I never opened 'em up, I talked about opening 'em up. (Laughter)

Becky: I noticed from pictures of the band was that you guys had a black singer … did you encounter any incidents of racism at hardcore shows?

Jay: no, the funny thing about Junior, well actually from the beginning, the funniest thing was that none of us really even knew Junior. And I was at some local show, I don't remember what show, but it was in Brooklyn. And I went to the bathroom to take a leak, and I was at the urinal and he was at the urinal next to me. And at that point it was just myself, our bass player Frank, and our drummer Frank. We were just starting the band, we didn't even have a singer yet. 'Cause originally, I was actually gonna sing, and I don't know whether you know it or not but on Rehab, that's the song that I sing. And that was the first song we ever wrote and that we ever came up with. And after doing that I decided nah I don't want to sing, I'm gonna look for a singer. So when I'm at this local hardcore show and Junior's at the urinal next to me, and I just looked at him and I thought he had a cool image. So just out of nowhere, I didn't even know him I was like dude, did you ever sing or anything? And he was like, no. So I was like, you wanna? (Laughter) So I just met him in the bathroom there, then brought him down to the studio, and we just started with him from there. And actually we're still good friends, for almost 20 years now.

Becky: That rules. But you weren't able to figure out how to get him on the 3-way call for the interview?

Jay: yeah I was trying to do it 'cause I was talking to him earlier tonight. I told him I was gonna do this, and I was like dude I should patch you in, and he was like yeah I'm down. And when I tried to do it on my cell phone, I couldn't figure out how to get him in.

Becky: Aw man. When you told the other guys in the band you were doing an interview, were they real surprised?

Jay: yeah he was like get the fuck out of here! (Laughter)

Becky: were you surprised when I asked you at first?

Jay: yeah, I'm just surprised totally from the whole Myspace thing. Surprised to get one message, nevertheless all the messages I've been getting, you know? I mean really, it's kinda crazy, I was talking to Chris who was the guitar player, he's down here too, and I was like dude, it's like becoming a full time job. You know? (Laughter)

Becky: Anything else you want to put out there? Stories, opinions, etc?

Jay: yeah I could try to give you a story … and then I got something for ya at the end here. As far as the band, like I said I think I told you already, we started in like '89, it was myself and Frank the bass player, we were in high school together. It started out with just me and him, guitar and bass, he would come over my house. Then he told me his brother plays drums, which is another Frank, his stepbrother. They're both Frank and Frank, go figure. (Laughter). So we got his brother involved to play drums, and then we just took it to the studio, the three of us, and just started making drums … I told you how we met Junior, how we got him in. We did have a different guitar player, we had one personnel change between demos.

Becky: yeah I noticed that, from looking at the inserts …

Jay: The first demo was a guy named Joe Gorman, who's actually a real good friend of mine, we're friends from like 12 years old. And he was playing on the first demo. And Chris at the time … I don't know if you've ever heard of this band, if not you might want to look into them, 'cause they were pretty good … First Order?

Becky: I think I've heard the name.

Jay: First Order was another Brooklyn band. They were one of the first Brooklyn bands, before Biohazard, before anybody. Real good band, I got their stuff if you want it I could probably even send it to you. Actually they have a Myspace page now too.

Becky: yeah I think I've heard the name in relation to something about Brooklyn.

Jay: yeah they were playing real heavy music, man. They were young, like 16, 17, but they had some stuff. So anyway, Chris our guitar player who replaced Joe for the second demo, he came from First Order. He came over to play with us. And that's pretty much how we did it. And towards the end, after we cut the second demo, we were going for our next recording, we started writing music 'cause we had all the players for the third demo, which was the one we were gonna get signed with. We were gonna push it hard. We were gonna do some stuff a little different lyrically, or some different vocal ideas, and I don't think Junior was too happy with it, or just tired at that point since we'd been going for a couple years. So Junior was the first one to step away. And then what happened was we got another singer. Who was kind of more like a metal singer, not like a Sebastian Bach type, but maybe more like a Pantera type style. So we started rolling with that, and we decided we had to change the name, because we just thought without Junior, he was the whole image of the band, you know? So when he left, we just couldn't go forward as Nobody's Perfect no more. So what we did was we changed the name of the band to Fine Line Fear, and we were together for about six months. And we were getting ready to play our first show, which was in Connecticut. And the guy who promoted the show actually billed us as Nobody's Perfect, because he knew that if we changed the name … 'cause we had a decent following up there. And he wanted to draw people. So even though we told him this is the name of the band, he went and advertised it as Nobody's Perfect. And we went to the show, and it was just fucking horrible. We got up there and people were like WHAT? You know? 'Cause now we're hitting them with new music, a new singer, and it didn't go over too good. And that was the last show we ever played. (Laughter)

Becky: didn't go out on a great note?

Jay: yeah. We all got discouraged from that and it was like fuck it. I tell ya I would have been pissed off, if I'm going to see a band that I like, and I'm like what the fuck's going on?

(the tape ends)

Becky: OK I got a new tape ..

Jay: we ate up a whole side of a tape already?

Becky: nah I actually had the beginning of another interview on there, so we got like half a tape or so. So we were just talking about the last show … I guess it was no fault of your own if you guys told him to bill you under the new name, and then he put Nobody's Perfect on there…

Jay: yeah it was a horrible experience. (Laughter). Yeah and that was it. That was about 1994, that's when we pretty much stopped playing. And Chris the guitarist, I'm currently working with him, we're just doing a lot of wild stuff. We're not really trying to do it to get out there right now, just messing around with a little different stuff, like acid jazz, hip hop mix, that type of stuff. I actually got a Myspace page for that, so I'll send you that at some point. You probably won't believe it's anything to do with Nobody's Perfect, but it's two players.

Becky: I guess everybody evolves into being interested in different styles of music over time.

Jay: yeah don't get me wrong, I still go real heavy, you know?

Becky: One more question … I had asked around to a couple of my older friends about Nobody's Perfect, and at first nobody had that much information for me. But then the people that did know about you guys … when I told them you had a Myspace, the first question that they asked me was, are they getting back together? Especially because there's been a lot of bands reuniting lately. So is there any chance of you guys playing a reunion?

Jay: to be honest with you, it wasn't even a thought, you know? Right away the living situation's a little fucked up for us, because Frank our old drummer, he's out in Texas now, bass player's in New York, and three of us are in Florida. And one's about to go to Chicago, from Florida, so we got four different states going on. But yeah, it wasn't even a thought. But the funny thing is, since I put the Myspace page up, just getting all the email, it definitely sparks a little buzz, you know? 'Cause I been getting a lot of email asking about reunion shows, this and that, everybody's doing them. So I ran it by Chris and Junior … just kind of like dude, imagine? Not even saying we were gonna do it … and then they were like “well I wouldn't mind.” So right now, we're actually kind of pushing it around, but if we do do it, it's probably just gonna be a one shot deal to do it. And there's one band that I want to do it with … I'm not gonna say their name, but they're playing August 3 somewhere in New York City …

Becky: OH MAN!

Jay: So if we do do it, I'm actually gonna try to hook it up with that, 'cause I actually know those guys. So if I am gonna do it, that's like my favorite band, and that's who I'd want to do it with.

Becky: That would be amazing. So you're saying that you guys would get added to that show, or you'd have them do another show?

Jay: Not at that show, but another one which is probably gonna go on, because I talked Chris Notaro through email, and he's saying if that show goes over good, which I can't see it not, with the buzz that's going on about that show, that's gonna determine if they're gonna make a new record, and all that stuff.

Becky: holy shit!

Jay: yeah he said they're gonna have record people there, looking at them, so I got big money on the fact that they're gonna make a new album.

Becky: That would be incredible. This is definitely the first I've heard of it. I'm not very cool, I don't find out about this kind of stuff.

Jay: So yeah, if that happens, which I'm hoping that happens, then I want to think about making the reunion happen. Maybe in early 2007, Nobody's Perfect and a ------------ show. (Laughter)

Becky: Yeah that's the thing, there's so many hardcore bands doing reunions in the last couple years, and that gets a mixed reaction from people. Like I'm real excited, I want to see all the reunions, but then there's some people saying it's bad for hardcore, they're only doing it for the money, etc … lately I've been asking pretty much everybody I interview, what do you think of all the reunions that are going, and I've gotten mostly positive responses. Mostly just because I've been talking to people who have been around a little bit longer and do want to see these bands again. So in general do you think it's a good thing that a lot of hardcore bands are reuniting?

Jay: Well first of all, there's no money in hardcore, so they're not doing it for the money. (Laughter) You know? Nah I think it's cool. Like I said, that's one thing, they're not coming back for the money, so you can't say that. There's just no money in hardcore. I mean, if a good band, like one of the bigger bands, Cro-Mags, whoever, comes back in, they may get a couple dollars, but they ain't getting rich. So it's not for the money … but yeah I dig seeing all these bands come back, you know? Like Celtic Frost just came out with a new album … who else … all these bands keep coming out with albums. I'm like holy shit, these fucking bands are still going?

Becky: Or even bands that haven't recorded anything new, but are just playing shows … like I just found out at 7:30 this morning that one of my favorite bands Dynamo is playing a reunion … Merauder's playing that show, and Backlash is playing a reunion … (Editor's note: this also ended up being the Outburst/Social Disorder reunion.)

Jay: oh speaking of Merauder, I'd like to get that in there, to say Rest in Peace to Javier, the guitar player from Merauder. I'd appreciate if you could get that in there.

Becky: absolutely, that will definitely be on tape. RIP.

Becky: yeah that show, I was so excited, I thought it was a hoax when my friend told me that Dynamo was playing! Yo once Dynamo's playing, what would really make my life complete is if the Icemen played.

Jay: hey it might happen. You know, like I said, it's all going on, everyone's coming back. For me, this show right here, this Crumbsuckers show, for me that's the most amazing reunion that could happen.

Becky: yeah I was absolutely astounded when I found out they were doing a reunion. Oh man, it's gonna be quite a show …

Jay: yeah it's gonna be something else.

Becky: there goes my Steps Toward Deception tape off the couch … I'm dropping things all over the place.

Jay: nice. Yeah actually too, I still have a few of them in that suitcase … I don't have any Witness This demos, but I got like 4 or 5 Steps Toward Deception demos that are still seal wrapped and everything.

Becky: that's pretty cool. I saw the list of the merch that you guys had on the inside of the demo … I think there was something about double sided t-shirts, and I was like oh man I'd be pretty excited to see a Nobody's Perfect t-shirt. I'm still looking for a real copy of Witness This …

Jay: yeah if you get one, let me know because I need one too. (Laughter) Yeah that's pretty sad that I don't even have the original no more. At some point a couple years ago I burned it off to CD so I would always have it, but I don't even have a Witness This tape.

Becky: yeah my pal did a real nice job with the photocopy job and gave me the lyrics and the insert and everything, but I still need a real one. I'm a big nerd.

Jay: yeah I gotta tell you it's pretty cool, for your age you got a lot of knowledge about a lot of old hardcore bands. You did your research.

Becky: haha thanks. Yeah this really was like a research project for Nobody's Perfect. 'Cause a lot of times when I want to find out about a band, it's like a natural progression of asking a couple friends, and different people give you details. But Nobody's Perfect, people weren't coming up with any information for me. But yeah, then I started finding out more stuff … and then I found the Myspace and got the interview.

Jay: cool, cool, it's crazy. Definitely tripped out.

Becky: yeah it's unexpected, Leeway style.

Jay: yeah, right? Unexpected for you to find us on there, and unexpected for us to get an interview twelve years later. (Laughter)

Becky: so you guys haven't done any other posthumous interviews?

Jay: no, not that I can remember. The band's come up over the years for whatever reasons, bumping into people, this and that, but yeah, there's been no interviews or anything like that.

Becky: you said before that you had something else you wanted to talk about on here also?

Jay: no that was it actually, speaking about a possible reunion show.

Becky: ah ok. When I asked that question I didn't think I was gonna get any kind of positive answer. I know that's the first thing people were saying when they saw the myspace. Like when Cold as Life first made a Myspace, people were asking if they were gonna do a reunion. Although there are rumors now that they were gonna play the Superbowl, but they couldn't get it together in time. There's been a lot of bands … if you had asked me a year ago from today, what bands I would not have thought were gonna do reunions in the next year … maybe it's because I'm young and because I don't really know a lot of people who would be telling me this kind of stuff … I wouldn't have predicted Leeway, I definitely wouldn't have predicted DYNAMO, I wouldn't have predicted Crown of Thornz playing the Superbowl, I wouldn't have predicted Crumbsuckers, I wouldn't have predicted Gut Instinct …

Jay: all your predictions have been wrong, huh?

Becky: yeah I know! All these bands I would have never even thought of playing, are doing reunions! So what do I want for 2007 … like Tears of Frustration I guess? I don't even know. (Laughter). Show of Force … yeah Confusion, that's another band that was supposed to do a reunion on May 21, and then CB's gave the date away to Hatebreed. And then I guess they gave the date back to the people doing the show last minute, and most of the bands then couldn't play. So Confusion didn't play, but I'd be interested to see them.

(Editor's note: Reading this interview three years later is one of the things that makes me still psyched on hardcore, in that you can never predict the future. Little did I know that I would have seen the Tears of Frustration reunion, Cold as Life and Confusion within the next year and change.)

Jay: so there was mass confusion? (Laughter)

Becky: yeah pretty much.

Jay: oh shit. Really? I didn't even know that they were playing.

Becky: yeah it was gonna be them, Everybody Gets Hurt, all the other bands were current bands, like Everybody Gets Hurt, Downlow, Everyday Dollars. And then Confusion was gonna play. It was gonna be May 21. And I don't know if there's been a rescheduled date for it. I hope so. I'd like to see Confusion.

Jay: So yeah, I guess that's pretty much the scoop.

Becky: any other issues you wanna touch on?

Jay: I got plenty of issues, nothing you wanna hear about. (Laughter) They got to do with bills, money …

Becky: yeah, nothing hardcore or zine related? Yeah I guess I got the answer to most of the questions I was really interested in …

Jay: I really appreciate it. It's cool after all this time that somebody's still interested in the band.

Becky: well thank you for doing the interview. I'm the one that's a big nerd that spends my days doing stupid stuff like tracking down hardcore bands online …

Jay: yeah well I do my stupid stuff too, when I should be doing good things, but I'm out wasting time …

Becky: yeah I'm hanging out in my house listening to Nobody's Perfect instead of out being social.

Jay: I hear ya, I hear ya.

Becky: Dudes try to ask me out on dates and stuff and I'm like nah, I wanna stay in my house and listen to the Dmize demos.

(picked up again a few minutes later with …)

Becky: Oh yeah, it's quite a week for international mail. I got a Biohazard backpack in the mail from Argentina, so I have something to carry my zines around in.

Jay: yeah have I been out of the loop that long, 'cause I'm just hearing a month or two ago that Biohazard's officially done?

Becky: oh no! I didn't know that either!

Jay: yeah they're like done, done. Everyone's in other bands … you know Danny the drummer's playing in Bloodclot with John Joseph … Billy's doing that Suicide City thing full time now, and Evan's doing what he's doing. (Laughter) Do you watch that show, you see him on that shit?

Becky: no I don't really watch TV but I actually just heard about it yesterday. My friend sent me a message …

Jay: oh my god. For me it's a little different 'cause I know the dude, you know? And I can't even believe this kid's on TV. Every time I see him, I'm like oh my god, I can't believe this kid. He's over the top now. But yeah, I heard, even Billy made a statement on the website that it's done. So you gotta wait at least probably five years for them to do a reunion, because you know that's probably gonna happen.

Becky: oh I dunno, it's OK, I can listen to the demo in the comfort of my home, even if I can't see them.

Jay: You got the Biohazard demo?

Becky: oh, I have the demo! (Laughter)

Jay: yeah. Those demos are raw, definitely. I know on the first demo, like at the beginning they were labeled a white supremacist band. But they weren't joking. They liked to say that … 'cause once they started getting big, they didn't want that bad label, you know? So they said it was a joke. But they weren't joking, I can tell you that. (Laughter). When that was going on, they were serious. But they changed it up … once they started getting interest, you can't go out doing that, on a record label. So yeah. But I love those demos.

Becky: The demo version of Victory is pretty much the hardest song ever.

Jay: I like their early stuff … I couldn't get into their last few albums.

Becky: yeah I just listen to the earlier stuff. It took me a little while to decipher some of the demo lyrics …

Jay: yeah that first demo … Evan, he's so raw, you can't even make out what he's saying at all.

Jay: So in closing … like I said, check out the First Order Myspace, also another Brooklyn band … it's www.myspace.com/firstordermusic … and if you wanted to check out something I'm doing with Chris right now, it's myspace.com/vicrew.

Becky: I think I saw that on the top 8 of Nobody's Perfect …

Jay: yeah you were probably like, what the fuck is this doing there? But what I got up there right now, the stuff is just kind of experimental. I got like two hip hop acid jazz songs, and one heavy tune we started writing. I got this other project in my back pocket with Chris about some heavy stuff. He's thinking about a concept album type deal, where it's kind of politically oriented and war oriented. So there's a song on that Vic Crew page called December 7, 1941, and that's kind of some heavy stuff that we've been working on too. It's kind of like an instrumental type thing. So you should check that out.

Becky: Thanks for doing this so many years afterwards. I'm sorry if I asked you for details you don't remember off the top of your head. (Laughter)

Jay: cool Becky, I appreciate it.

Becky: no, I appreciate it. And that's the thing … not only did I want more people to find out about Nobody's Perfect, but I just wanted to find out more about the band.

Jay: that's cool, that's cool. I really dig that.